发信人: adamant (笨猫杀手), 信区: Biology
标 题: [转载] Re: 有谁知道记忆是怎么回事吗? 拜托各位
发信站: The unknown SPACE (Sat Feb 19 19:03:36 2000), 转信
【 以下文字转载自 Science 讨论区 】
【 原文由 StangBoy 所发表 】
【 在 adamant (阿图) 的大作中提到: 】
:
: 实际上, 我也怀疑KnockOut 的结果, 因为 NMDA receptor 在 CNS 里分布太广, 它
: 的缺乏很容易导致其他系统功能的破坏. 但是有兴趣的人可以看看
: overexpress NMDA receptor 的结果(Tang YaPing, Genetic enhancement
: of learning and memory in mice, Nature, 1999, 63-69), 文章讨论了
: overexpress NMDA receptor 2B对LTP的增强, 以及对学习和记忆的改善, 应该
: 比knockout结果更有说服力.
: 作功能本来就是很困难的一件事情, 为了求全而苛刻的态度对研究很有害.
Yeah I agree, you have to start somewhere. What I was trying to say is that
the link between LTP/LTD and memory is far from conclusive. Otherwise Kandel would've
got Nobel Prize years ago (he's still among the most probable in neurobiology field though).
I don't know if there's any psychologist here, maybe we should ask them what memory
really is, neuroscientists are not yet as qualified as them to answer the question.
For neuroscientists and psychologists alike, an acceptable statement is that
memory might have a cellular/molecular basis; and the best candidate of this basis is
LTP/LTD.
As a neuroscience major myself, I refrain from telling the public that I know what
memory is in cellular/molecular terms, although I think LTP/LTD and associated molecular
mechanisms are a promising beginning.
Was Joe Tsien the PI in the paper you mentioned? I remember reading it a while ago.
Very interesting finding, the Times and all major media reported his discovery.
:
: 【 在 StangBoy (打一枪换个地方) 的大作中提到: 】
: : Exactly. Well, my previous post was trying to say the same thing, but the morning
: : coffee turned into alchohol after lunch.
: : Heard one of the mutants Eric Kandel's lab couldn't even swim, no wonder they failed
: : the water maze. He he he...
: :
: :
: : 【 在 yuffie (天天想你) 的大作中提到: 】
: : : LTP和通常意义的记忆到底有多大的联系,所有的Paper目前尚且不能
: : : Convince我。加上大部分试验是mouse的water maze试验,检查的是老鼠
: : : 识别各种special cue的能力。记得不久有人宣称CREB蛋白knockout(KO)
: : : ,并且得出结论记忆和CREB有关。但不久,发现所谓的KO并不彻底,有
: : : 一种新的splicing mRNA出现,功能和以前的CREB有部分重叠。
: : : 而且,有一些Tg或KO试验,也许影响了老鼠的视力,导致fail watermaze
: : : 试验,或有其他复杂的因素影响,很难说和记忆100%相关。
: : : 我最近见到一些文章叙述CA1区域和记忆的关系,at least和LTP的关系,
: : : 但是还是没有什么令人信服的解释可以解释记忆的recall和维持。
: : :
: : : 至于original的问题,记忆显然和物质有关,俺中学学唯物主义的时候就
: : : 知道了,呵呵,搞笑一把。
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