发信人: ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!), 信区: America
标 题: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Sep 5 00:09:56 2008)

This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little short
).

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php

I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't remember
the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read staff
that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on the plane, I had to
read something:) You don't get to read staff that is so close to the core
of the problem in China, in Chinese language. I went to some book stores
when I went back to visit 4 years ago. The collection of books that are
about international issues is worse than poor. It was like a desert.

Whenever someone talked about US being a "cultural desert", I had to give a
polite chuckle.

You only get to read this staff in English, in U.S.

--

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发信人: netghost (Up to Isomorphism), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Sep 5 13:50:08 2008), 转信

I agree that China culturally more resembles a desert than the US.

However, US is extremely biased when it comes to international issues.


【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little
short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't
remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read
staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on the plane, I had to
: read something:) You don't get to read staff that is so close to the core
: of the problem in China, in Chinese language. I went to some book stores
: ...................

--
Fanboys (Definition) - "An unkempt, socially awkward, young man who
may be perceived as a loud mouthed pseudo-intellectual."



※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 74.66.]

发信人: ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Sep 5 19:17:55 2008)

Not really.

Because of composition of US population, pretty much you read the fairest
stuff from US source.

Did you read the article?

【 在 netghost (Up to Isomorphism) 的大作中提到: 】
: I agree that China culturally more resembles a desert than the US.
: However, US is extremely biased when it comes to international issues.




--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 69.124.]

发信人: coldstar (coldstar), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Sep 5 21:24:08 2008)

Well, America is a liberal democracy. In an open society like the one we
have, you can read all kinds of opinions, access all kinds of publications.
Many of these opinions could be very extreme. Getting exposed to a wide
variety of opinions along the political spectrum is a process of maturing
and growing. The result is more balanced view, and more informed citizenry.
Such an informedness is a very important basis for a civil society to
succeed.

A random wander around any bookstore in this country, you'll find all kinds
of books. On the politics and history shelf, you'll find most books
disagreeing with foreign policy and god knows, every policy really.

I may not read every opinion, but I do want to have access to all of them. A
democracy gives me that opportunity. It doesn't create chaos; it creates
rationality, understanding, and civil society.

That's why I never felt like I miss the life in China. It is simply not
attractive. Or maybe it is because I can find what I want here and have lots
of stuff to do to keep me happy and productive :-)


【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little
short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't
remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read
staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on the plane, I had to
: read something:) You don't get to read staff that is so close to the core
: of the problem in China, in Chinese language. I went to some book stores
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 127.0.]

发信人: coldstar (coldstar), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Sep 5 21:32:20 2008)

I forgot to ask. Where do you stand on the Russia-Georgia issue?

You seem to have read a lot of literature on this.


【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little
short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't
remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read
staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on the plane, I had to
: read something:) You don't get to read staff that is so close to the core
: of the problem in China, in Chinese language. I went to some book stores
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 127.0.]

发信人: sir ( 郎 ), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Sep 6 14:46:39 2008)

love means responsibility and scarification
you are just being indulged

【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: This is a story behind the Russian-Georgian conflict, I will not copy and
: paste it, if you are interested, it is a amazing read (Albeit a little
short
: ).
: http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/08/the-truth-about-1.php
: I love reading about (international) history and politics. I don't
remember
: the last time I read a fiction (non-science fiction) book, I only read
staff
: that can increase my knowledge of something. (Oh wait, I think the last
: fiction I read was da vinci's code, I was so bored on the plane, I had to
: read something:) You don't get to read staff that is so close to the core
: of the problem in China, in Chinese language. I went to some book stores
: ...................




--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 71.233.]

发信人: ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Sep 6 19:03:16 2008)

heh I pay for my taxes. How responsible is that. :)

【 在 sir ( 郎 ) 的大作中提到: 】
: love means responsibility and scarification
: you are just being indulged



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 69.124.]

发信人: ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Sep 6 19:06:03 2008)

I don't really care much(I like reading about middle east issues more :).
But, heh, it was clearly a provocation from the bears.

【 在 coldstar (coldstar) 的大作中提到: 】
: I forgot to ask. Where do you stand on the Russia-Georgia issue?
: You seem to have read a lot of literature on this.



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 69.124.]

发信人: netghost (Up to Isomorphism), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Sep 6 23:23:09 2008), 转信

you do not have a choice. :)
【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: heh I pay for my taxes. How responsible is that. :)


--
Fanboys (Definition) - "An unkempt, socially awkward, young man who
may be perceived as a loud mouthed pseudo-intellectual."



※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 74.66.]

发信人: coldstar (coldstar), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 7 01:22:39 2008)

I see. I don't have a strong interest in middle east issues, and frankly, it
is too complicated. Sometimes I wonder, if the Middle East doesn't have
natural resources, would they be left alone and deal with their own
enlightenment instead of external surgery? Maybe their path of history would
be very different.

I still think that America is too much involved in the local dynamics in
that troubled region, to a point that America relies on their resources and
relies on intervening. Such a deep involvement may prove unnecessary, and
has brought nightmare to America. I think America should reposition itself
in global politics, and become a constructive force on hot-button issues
like climate change. A real global leadership must have a basic moral
authority. Reckless behaviors would only invite imitation and endless
conflicts.



【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: I don't really care much(I like reading about middle east issues more :).
: But, heh, it was clearly a provocation from the bears.



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 127.0.]

发信人: coldstar (coldstar), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 7 01:39:56 2008)

I think love means when it is right, keep it right, when it is wrong, make
it right. True love is never based on hatred. It is based on real caring for
those behind you. A real citizen is one who monitors her/his government,
get informed, and foster social change. That is real patriotism, not
nationalism.

Love is when your government doesn't care about that diabetic woman who can'
t afford healthcare, you advocate for that healthcare. Love is when your
government misuses your country's power and distorts your dearest value, you
bravely stand up for what's right. Love is when you can take advantage of
social resources, you still think about those minorities who live in the
shadow because they are disabled, gay, or ethnically underrepresented. Love
is when change is inevitable, you engage in that change, not resist it. That
's love, folks. That's what love is. And I am surprised, and deeply saddened
, by the fact that in this country there are many citizens who think they
know how to love but in reality they don't. I'm surprised that there are so
many people who would be nakedly hypocritical yet at the same time demand
their rights. I'm surprised that there are many who think that because a foreign
dictator is worse, therefore America doesn't need to change.

I pay tax to this country, but I do much more than that. I am part of its
civil society, and I play an impactful role in my community. My liberal education
, involvement, and experience make me attached to this society. And I like
it. It feels like home. But it doesn't stop me from criticizing this
government. I am very critical and I find people around me even more
critical. They are good people.



【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: heh I pay for my taxes. How responsible is that. :)




--
※ 修改:·coldstar 於 Sep 7 01:42:23 2008 修改本文·[FROM: 127.0.]

发信人: eastwest (ew), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Sep 7 01:49:20 2008)

Russia only defends its interests. Russia does not like their board
surrounded by enemies, and does not forget the histories of being invaded
over centuries by their neighbors.

“West must understand Russian fears:..” said former British military
chief Sir Mike Jackson.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/08/17/do1701.xml


--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 24.22.]

发信人: ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Sep 8 00:42:42 2008)

When was it the last time Georgians invaded big bad Russia? To be honest, I
see Russia being surrounded by small countries Russians had bullied on for
hundreds of years. "Being invaded"?

【 在 eastwest (ew) 的大作中提到: 】
: Russia only defends its interests. Russia does not like their board
: surrounded by enemies, and does not forget the histories of being invaded
: over centuries by their neighbors.
: “West must understand Russian fears:..” said former British military
: chief Sir Mike Jackson.
: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/08/17/do1701.xml



--

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发信人: ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Sep 8 00:45:28 2008)

All the middle east shit started with British's colonization.

And no one would give a shit about them, if Israel isn't there.

【 在 coldstar (coldstar) 的大作中提到: 】
: I see. I don't have a strong interest in middle east issues, and frankly,
it
: is too complicated. Sometimes I wonder, if the Middle East doesn't have
: natural resources, would they be left alone and deal with their own
: enlightenment instead of external surgery? Maybe their path of history
would
: be very different.
: I still think that America is too much involved in the local dynamics in
: that troubled region, to a point that America relies on their resources
and
: relies on intervening. Such a deep involvement may prove unnecessary, and
: has brought nightmare to America. I think America should reposition itself
: in global politics, and become a constructive force on hot-button issues
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 69.124.]

发信人: Alamo (阿拉莫戈多), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Sep 8 17:56:03 2008)


俄国经历的最大两次入侵：拿破仑，希特勒。

印象里古代俄国是个虚弱的国家，自彼得大帝以后开始扩张，一直到西方
遇到法国或者德国，东方遇到日本为止。

俄国担心的并不是Georgia的入侵，而是更西方的入侵，再说Georgia曾经是
俄帝国的一部分，即使现在独立了，它也仍然需要被俄国控制。

Anyway，大帝国似乎都有内在的扩张特性，什么意识形态都不能掩盖，一直
到地理障碍或者碰到另一个帝国。

【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: When was it the last time Georgians invaded big bad Russia? To be honest,
I
: see Russia being surrounded by small countries Russians had bullied on for
: hundreds of years. "Being invaded"?
--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 159.53.]

发信人: coldstar (coldstar), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 01:28:28 2008)

俄国以前的确遭人入侵，但是那都是强悍的大国。这些俄国周围的小国，之所以有什么
种族民族问题，本身就是俄国bully的结果。俄国把本来不属于它的利益说成是天经地
义的东西，本来就是不可理解的。

俄国怕西方入侵。这更可笑的。西方谁要入侵它俄国？欧盟？欧盟也就是一个虚拟实体
，关键问题上，比如这次对待俄国上，也就是一个泡沫，还是有美国作为依靠以后的胆
量。

美国？开玩笑，美国赤字累累，经济困境，疲于征战。

俄国担心的不是什么领土的安全，而是他们不愿意失去他们过去的那种bully around的
条件。所以他们视民主东扩为洪水猛兽，因为这一政治军事联合起来的民主东扩将彻底
瓦解俄罗斯在东欧地区继续霸权的美梦，让俄国真的变成一个只能维护主权的主权国家
。换句话说，也就是民主东扩没有威胁到俄国的主权和领土完整。反而是俄国为了苟延残踹，死不
放弃本不属于自己的东西。

俄国真的再次崛起了吗，我觉得这话说得起吗是太早。论经济实力，它从来就不行，它从来就是一个野蛮的靠军事力量征服效果的霸权。 现在它可以用自然资源来提着裤子，可是它的综合实力是不行的。现在中国印度南美纷纷崛起，综合性的崛起，而俄国却是人口减少，种族歧视，对俄国更遭的是，他们没有成熟的公民社会来面对这些挑战，却一味的抗拒不可避免的趋势，这必将给俄国国内带来冲突。

Anglo国家也”心狠手辣“，可是手段和表现形式大不一样，在世界人民中得到的反应也是大不一样的。 其实哪个强国对外都一样，但是anglo和bear的区别就在于，anglo就是比bear先进，就是没有那么土，所以也打心底里看不起俄国。


【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: When was it the last time Georgians invaded big bad Russia? To be honest,
I
: see Russia being surrounded by small countries Russians had bullied on for
: hundreds of years. "Being invaded"?




--
※ 修改:·coldstar 於 Sep 9 01:38:13 2008 修改本文·[FROM: 127.0.]

发信人: eastwest (ew), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 01:57:37 2008)



【死不放弃本不属于自己的东西。】
Through out history,if you can take it and keep it for a while, then it
belongs you.

The Moscow justification for its intervention in Georgia is same as Nato's
on its military action years ago over Kosovo - prevention of humanitarian
disaster - of ethnic cleansing.

What would China do if its neighbors, say Vietnam, starting doing terrible
things to its ethnic Chinese population?

--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 24.22.]

发信人: Alamo (阿拉莫戈多), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 10:58:15 2008)


外交部发言人会呼吁侨民遵守所在国的法律，中国将奉行不干涉别国内政的
政策。几年前印尼发生过类似事件了，有人解释说那时候海军还狠面，没有
远洋作战能力。

发信人: eastwest (ew), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 01:57:37 2008)

What would China do if its neighbors, say Vietnam, starting doing terrible
things to its ethnic Chinese population?

--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 159.53.]

发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 18:03:41 2008)


【 在 ayanami (螃蟹@FROSTSHOCK PWNS YOU!!11!) 的大作中提到: 】
: All the middle east shit started with British's colonization.
: And no one would give a shit about them, if Israel isn't there.

"And no one would give a shit about them, if _oil_ isn't there."

There, fixed it for ya.
--
"Bright? He's a common ignorant slob. He don't even speak good English."
"Doesn't... He _doesn't_ even speak good English."

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 205.143.]

发信人: magicfat (魔法胖子), 信区: America
标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 18:09:59 2008)


Ethnic Chinese != Chinese nationals.

The Chinese government has a mandate to protect its
citizens, but not citizens of other countries who
happen to be ethnic Chinese.

【 在 Alamo (阿拉莫戈多) 的大作中提到: 】
: 外交部发言人会呼吁侨民遵守所在国的法律，中国将奉行不干涉别国内政的
: 政策。几年前印尼发生过类似事件了，有人解释说那时候海军还狠面，没有
: 远洋作战能力。
: 发信人: eastwest (ew), 信区: America
: 标 题: Re: This is (part of) why I love this country.
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Sep 9 01:57:37 2008)
: What would China do if its neighbors, say Vietnam, starting doing terrible
: things to its ethnic Chinese population?



--
"Bright? He's a common ignorant slob. He don't even speak good English."
"Doesn't... He _doesn't_ even speak good English."

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