发信人: retsmaz (Henry), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Apr 11 13:05:21 2008)

请问台湾同胞一个问题

在国民党政府1986年开放党禁报禁之前，台湾大部分民众对国民党政府的看法是怎样的
？ 是不是也有一种说不出的感情？ 换句话说，1986年前，是不是爱台湾和爱政府基本
上是没有清晰边界的？

谢谢

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※ 修改:·retsmaz 於 Apr 11 13:15:18 2008 修改本文·[FROM: 65.25.]

发信人: choi (choi), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Apr 12 10:54:58 2008)

Why do you consider the year 1986 was important in this regard?

What do you mean by "说不出" and why?


【 在 retsmaz (Henry) 的大作中提到: 】
: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
: 在国民党政府1986年开放党禁报禁之前，台湾大部分民众对国民党政府的看法是怎样的
: ？ 是不是也有一种说不出的感情？ 换句话说，1986年前，是不是爱台湾和爱政府基本
: 上是没有清晰边界的？
: 谢谢



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发信人: retsmaz (Henry), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 02:48:41 2008)

我是类比于现在大陆学生一遇见反共，必警惕为反华…… 于是爱国荷尔蒙上升到一定
程度，再不接受任何理性的对话。 因为国家在他们心里的至高无上的，and rightly
so，但是共党政府通过60年的教育，已经把自己和国家紧密地焊接在一起了。

所以我想对比独裁时期的台湾。

【 在 choi (choi) 的大作中提到: 】
: Why do you consider the year 1986 was important in this regard?
: What do you mean by "说不出" and why?



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发信人: DaShuaiGe (biangbiang), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 03:15:38 2008)

俺来猜测一下

老荣民是,老外省人是.

其它人不是.大陆人和台湾人爱国主义精神树立的难度差别比较大,国民党政府倒底是和
台湾绑在一起还是和什么绑在一起,和大陆这种清晰明确具体现实的捆绑恐怕不一样.

【 在 retsmaz (Henry) 的大作中提到: 】
: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
: 在国民党政府1986年开放党禁报禁之前，台湾大部分民众对国民党政府的看法是怎样的
: ？ 是不是也有一种说不出的感情？ 换句话说，1986年前，是不是爱台湾和爱政府基本
: 上是没有清晰边界的？
: 谢谢



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发信人: patsy (Patsy), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 06:43:38 2008)

很好奇，你在纽约版到底发了什么文被禁70天？
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发信人: retsmaz (Henry), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 11:29:04 2008)

我也不知道，可能是我公开声称达赖应该是朋友？ 具体借词是说我藏独，可是我说了
很多次我不是，也没用。
【 在 patsy (Patsy) 的大作中提到: 】
: 很好奇，你在纽约版到底发了什么文被禁70天？



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发信人: alligator (alligator), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 11:36:01 2008), 转信

哈哈
这个时候任何出来为藏人达赖说句话的
或者稍微质疑一下'火热爱国运动的'
都要被打成独轮运zdCIA打手


【 在 retsmaz (Henry) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我也不知道，可能是我公开声称达赖应该是朋友？ 具体借词是说我藏独，可是我说了
: 很多次我不是，也没用。



--

※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 68.228.]

发信人: Kingofkings (茅十八), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 13:31:11 2008)

你的头像很酷，颇像我认识的一个gay,特别是那眼神。


【 在 retsmaz (Henry) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我也不知道，可能是我公开声称达赖应该是朋友？ 具体借词是说我藏独，可是我说了
: 很多次我不是，也没用。



--
Chairman of AAAAAA
Asian American Accountant And Auditor Association.

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 68.184.]

发信人: retsmaz (Henry), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 14:24:10 2008)

呵呵,那个是King Kravitz，或许真是gay也没准儿
【 在 Kingofkings (茅十八) 的大作中提到: 】
: 你的头像很酷，颇像我认识的一个gay,特别是那眼神。



--

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发信人: choi (choi), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Apr 13 14:24:48 2008)

(1) Firstly, to Kingofkings. It is unfortunate you don't know who the image
is. It is one of the most well-known American billionaires.

(2) To retsmaz:

I will tell you the truth.

I left Taiwan in 1984, So I don't know much after that, including 1986.

This is my observation while in Taiwan. People were so afraid that did not
talk about politics. Not even among family. Parents knew atories that
children said thing in schools and their parents disappeared in the middle
of the night. In mid-1970s, I was naive, and asked strangers, college
students sitting in an open grassland: "Hey, why do you think of politics?"
Everybody just stared at me. The scene was eeriely silent. I grew up in City
of Kaohsiung, which is now considered one of the DPP bastions. I also spent
seven years in City of Taipei. As I said, people dare not tal about
politics, not even the successor of Pres. Chinag Kai-shek, who was very sick
during most of his presidency. (A few magazines talked about that issue.
Perhaps they did not care. About anything. But they also knew Pres. Chiang
Ching-kuo, unlike his father, was not ruthless and that the most that would
happen to them was shuttering of the magazines, while the publishers had
registered many titles (names) so they could republish under a new name.)
Taiwanese are very different from Chinese. In characters. I am Cantonese by
descent. I knew both Taiwanese and Mainlanders. I did not know gansters who
would later go to US to kill a writer who defamed the Chiang family.
Taiwanese decided not to have armed uprising against the government, because
they had no arms--so any uprising amounted to having themselves killed.
They confided in me that they were patiently waiting for mainlanders to die
out and to take over the regime peacefully. Which they did. In daily life,
we just endure silly things, like worshiping everything about Generalssimo
Chiang, while he was alive and to a lesser degree under his son. We joked
about and made fun of KMT, in bohh cities, whatever the ethnicity. For when
power concnetrates, all honors and blames concentrates, too. KMT--and almost
everybody who was somebody--had a lot of spies among us. Sometimes wwe knew
who they were. Sometimes, a person told us, while crying, that this other
person tried to recruit me and I said no. We just hated everything. And I
never liked Republic of China, its anthem or song. But I did not say
anything about it. Except one day I asked a powerful KMT official, who was a
confidant of Pres. Chinag Ching-kuo before he became the president, "why I
should love the nation."
(How I met the stranger, that is a secret.) Taiwan was ossified in late
1970s and early 1980s. We all thought Taiwan would be taken over by China in
no time. And we accepted that fate, because there was no discussion (among
people in Taiwan), no alternative (in the geopolitics). We thought we were
Chinese then. We thought China (including Mongolia and Tibet) was ours. We
doubtred what Taiwanese government said about Communists, which turned out
to be true, I leared after coming to US. Looking back, it is unbelievable
that Taiwan became an economic powerhouse, and that Taiwan is still alive--
and kicking with force. Thank God for that.


【 在 retsmaz (Henry) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我是类比于现在大陆学生一遇见反共，必警惕为反华…… 于是爱国荷尔蒙上升到一定
: 程度，再不接受任何理性的对话。 因为国家在他们心里的至高无上的，and rightly
: so，但是共党政府通过60年的教育，已经把自己和国家紧密地焊接在一起了。
: 所以我想对比独裁时期的台湾。



--

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发信人: Ducksburg (Ducksburg), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Apr 15 05:10:18 2008)

得了吧
你是美国人吧，上来先表示中国人不接受理性对话，那你还指望别人怎么对待你？

反共这个东西要看谁说，我们中国人骂共产党骂了至少20多年了，但轮不到你们美国人
。美国人的政治立场和我们不一样。我们无论是骂还是夸，都是为了中国好。可是美帝
凭什么为了我们好?换位思考，我也不care其他国家的利益，非洲国家死那么多人，我
也无所谓。所以美帝虚伪那一套没用。

对，国家是至高无上的。我不想我的国家是下一个Iraq。
btw，我们中国人有几千年的历史。国和家的关系，几千年前我们就想通了。中国这几
千年，尤其是汉民族，什么事情没经历过。汉朝，盛唐，腐败的明朝，清军入关，蒙古
族的统治。政治这东西，根本的道理根本没变过。看两遍三国，都比看美帝写的狗屁玩
意儿有用。

你什么盆子都往TG，独裁身上扣，也没什么意义。




【 在 retsmaz (Henry) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我是类比于现在大陆学生一遇见反共，必警惕为反华…… 于是爱国荷尔蒙上升到一定
: 程度，再不接受任何理性的对话。 因为国家在他们心里的至高无上的，and rightly
: so，但是共党政府通过60年的教育，已经把自己和国家紧密地焊接在一起了。
: 所以我想对比独裁时期的台湾。



--

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发信人: Ducksburg (Ducksburg), 信区: Taiwan
标 题: Re: 请问台湾同胞一个问题
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue Apr 15 05:11:59 2008)

你们还真可怜啊，我从小都没有过敢讲政治的恐惧。更不要说和我爸讲了（我妈对这个
没兴趣）
【 在 choi (choi) 的大作中提到: 】
: (1) Firstly, to Kingofkings. It is unfortunate you don't know who the
image
: is. It is one of the most well-known American billionaires.
: (2) To retsmaz:
: I will tell you the truth.
: I left Taiwan in 1984, So I don't know much after that, including 1986.
: This is my observation while in Taiwan. People were so afraid that did not
: talk about politics. Not even among family. Parents knew atories that
: children said thing in schools and their parents disappeared in the middle
: of the night. In mid-1970s, I was naive, and asked strangers, college
: students sitting in an open grassland: "Hey, why do you think of politics?
"
: ...................



--

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